Magnum policy change?

Jeff said:
The "real problem" can be both controls and crap storage. They're not mutually exclusive problems.

No, they're not mutually exclusive. But it's worth noting that with bins, Magnum has regularly been able to push more bodies through than any other coaster, at least through 2008.

The bins only became prohibitive to that since the new controls were installed.

EDIT: Dave said pretty much the same thing, though more eloquently, when he sneaked in above me.

I don't think it's unreasonable (or entitled) to think a bank of free lockers at the major rides is a good investment and would make a good PR tool. If only for what Thabto said, maybe people would be more likely to buy things like cups or other souvenirs if they knew they would have a free place to store it at every ride. With the crackdown on ride bin usage (I generally support the crackdown), I can see sales of those things going way down.

But then you'd have to make the lockers free park-wide. I would imagine lockers are a pretty huge revenue generator for the park, in terms of revenue:overhead.

The only free locker scenario that I can see working would be what others have suggested in these discussions - free lockers within the ride queue itself. You pass by the lockers on the way to the station, then again as you depart.

Of course, implementing this would carry significant cost, as wherever implemented, every queue would have to be modified.

That's only an easy ROI case when you're spending someone else's money. ;)

They could make the lockers free for only a specified amount of time, then you are charged for how much time you go over that specified amount. Like they could make it 1 hour free and if you use it longer than that, you will be charged.

I'm still not clear on how that prevents abuse, and thus how the park would ensure an adequate number of lockers were available for guests of exceptional baggage.

djDaemon said:
But then you'd have to make the lockers free park-wide.

Why would they need to do that? Only the lockers associated with a ride that require a locker would need to be free, like how it is done at Universal. If a ride wait is 60 minutes, you get a free locker for something like 75 minutes and after that time is up, you have to pay. This type of system is already in use and works great each time I use it.

How do they prevent the non-riders from using up the lockers designated for riders?

Presumably they don't need a locker if they're not riding, right?

^^^^

What constitutes "exceptional" baggage? (Yes I know that you are being humerous, but my point is still valid.) CP is trying to encourage people to purchase stuff, and I agree with Scotty--this discourages people from buying stuff. This baggage is not "exceptional" (still a good joke dj) but, rather, is profit. :)

Yes, season pass holders may view a trip to the park as an opportunity to maximize rides. Others may view it as a broader experience--eating, games, shows, people watching, etc and rides. Banning bins may please one group, but have an opposite (and greater) effect on the other group.

It will be interesting to see if CP's surveys show whether the gain is worth it.

Jeff said:
Presumably they don't need a locker if they're not riding, right?

I wasn't operating under that presumption. I suppose I figured some folks use lockers as local storage for stuff they don't want to have to trek to the parking lot for.

But if we're operating under that assumption, then the problem is that the park loses what I assume is a fairly significant revenue generator.

I'm guessing that since it's already employed elsewhere, it's one of those "it could be, but in reality isn't" problems.

Btw, I'm curious as to what you consider "fairly significant revenue," and why you think these things are generating such for the park.

That could be. *shrug*

As for revenue, lockers are expensive to rent, and require a tiny amount of overhead relative to that price. I'm not in any way suggesting that CF would be in financial trouble as a result of offering free lockers. However, it might not be easy to explain to shareholders why they're abandoning a revenue stream.

Why are we missing the obvious answer here. They could allow you to purchase things and then pick them up at the end of the day.

It depends on how they monetize good PR and a positive customer experience. I would think an argument could be made that the goodwill gained would offset the money lost. Not every rider group has a designated non-rider to hold all the crap. I know I'd be annoyed if I had to rent a locker every time to secure the cup I just bought.

I've always looked at lockers as thing like benches. They should be placed as simple conveniences and value-add items, and should be free, especially with the recent rider-bin changes. I suppose if they could figure out a way to charge for sitting on a bench, they would.

Btw, I have noticed, especially with TTD, that many times people leave things like cups on the top of the lockers and hope for the best.

djDaemon said:
As for revenue, lockers are expensive to rent, and require a tiny amount of overhead relative to that price. I'm not in any way suggesting that CF would be in financial trouble as a result of offering free lockers. However, it might not be easy to explain to shareholders why they're abandoning a revenue stream.

But if the park went with an operation like Universal, you are't abandoning a revenue stream. The lockers are not 100% free for the day, just for an allotted amount of time. I'm curious to know how many guests at Universal intend to use a "free locker" but end up just keeping stuff there and paying.

Aside from all of that, the park could actually install free lockers for guests but make the money back in another way. You all know the free Pepsi at Holiday World isn't actually free right? They could use the same concept with lockers at Cedar Point.

But they don't.

Most of the civilized world is filled with lockers that cost money to use. Expecting a for-profit enterprise to offer them for free, particularly one that makes no apologies for charging as much as it can for certain things, seems silly. I don't object to any prices at CP, I just choose not to buy a lot of stuff there. Lockers included.

Why nobody else uses the stroller method we employ escapes me, especially given the litany of complaints and "what am I supposed to do now?" kind of comments.

99er said:
I'm curious to know how many guests at Universal intend to use a "free locker" but end up just keeping stuff there and paying.

Aside from all of that, the park could actually install free lockers for guests but make the money back in another way. You all know the free Pepsi at Holiday World isn't actually free right? They could use the same concept with lockers at Cedar Point.

Two excellent points.

And now I'm more curious than ever to know how locker profit compares to soda profit, considering the relatively small cost of each product.

MaverickLaunch said:
Why are we missing the obvious answer here. They could allow you to purchase things and then pick them up at the end of the day.

Back in the 80's in some shops you could actually have your stuff sent up front to the souvenir photo counter and pick it up on your way out of the park. It was free. Of course this wouldn't do any good for the cups...

CP is trying to encourage people to purchase stuff, and I agree with Scotty--this discourages people from buying stuff. This baggage is not "exceptional" (still a good joke dj) but, rather, is profit. :)

The park needs to evaluate the amount of lost profit from sales that do not happen because free bins/lockers are not available. Some things will be purchased on the way out so no profit is lost. They how much are they paying to store things (both physical storage space plus lost capacity) that were not purchased at the park and thus provided no profit to the park. And in terms of merchandising, Cedar Point will never compare to Disney or Universal.

Why are we missing the obvious answer here. They could allow you to purchase things and then pick them up at the end of the day.

In a way the park already does this. Just buy things on your way out of the park. Doesn't cover everyone/everything but balance costs of the buy now/pick up later system versus additional sales it would generate.

It depends on how they monetize good PR and a positive customer experience. I would think an argument could be made that the goodwill gained would offset the money lost.

There is definitely more art than science when it comes to putting a price on good PR and positive customer experience. Lines have to be drawn and then re-evaluated from time to time.

I've always looked at lockers as thing like benches. They should be placed as simple conveniences and value-add items, and should be free, especially with the recent rider-bin changes. I suppose if they could figure out a way to charge for sitting on a bench, they would.

But its very common to see charges for lockers (not just at amusement parks) and incredibly rare (are there any?) to see charges for benches. So on balance, I do not think that people share your view of lockers as the same as benches.

Aside from all of that, the park could actually install free lockers for guests but make the money back in another way. You all know the free Pepsi at Holiday World isn't actually free right? They could use the same concept with lockers at Cedar Point.

Charging for lockers lines up the costs with the people using the service. If you don't use them, you do not pay for them. "Free" drinks is at least somewhat different in that pretty much everyone will need a drink at some point in the day. I think charging for drinks makes more sense though I can understand the marketing aspect of it. I wouldn't expect the same appeal from a marketing stand point with free lockers.

Why nobody else uses the stroller method we employ escapes me, especially given the litany of complaints and "what am I supposed to do now?" kind of comments.

Strollers/wagons were handy when my kids were using them. Had a place to store some water and a snack. But on balance, I was glad when we could leave the stroller/wagon at home because it was also a hassle to push around all day. And back strollers/wagons were a part of our every day life, it was much easier to remember one. If I brought one to the park, I can imagine forgetting we brought it for several hours and then having to backtrack to where we left it.

Though sounds like it could work for some people who otherwise used bins and/or do not want to pay for lockers.