Voyage to the Iron Reef at Knotts...

I don't know, Pete. I don't think Disney has any plans to turn Pirates into a video game anytime soon, and Peter Pan's Flight has one of the park's longest waits. The new Frozen ride is going to be a pretty tame boat ride with some kick-ass scenery.

A quality dark ride does grab your attention constantly, be that through the scenery and sounds or by the sheer mystery of the adventure itself. Every turn offers something new, and many times there is too much to take in on just one ride.

Maybe my kids are an anomaly, but they had no interest in riding Toy Story more than once, but they had us on Pirates 4 times on our last trip. Granted they are 7 and 3, and they are cursed with 50% of my DNA.

I think it's trendy, and I do not doubt the popularity of these rides for a certain segment of the population, but for Pete's sake (pun intended), how about the park builds a ride with the most mass appeal? I would argue a well-done traditional dark ride (which means a lot more today than it used to) covers that base much better than a shoot-em-up dark ride.

I think both types of rides would be popular, but I would place my money on the traditional dark ride as appealing to a broader audience. After all, it's us "old-timers" who are actually spending the money in the park.

My 5-year-old doesn't care for Toy Story Midway Mania, but his parents enjoy it. :)

^ The Spider-Man ride at IoA is excellent. Was there for the first time last year and was impressed with that and all of the dark rides at Universal Orlando Resort. That type of dark ride would be nice at CP, but seems like those rides are rather expensive.

The non-interactive rides at Disney appeal to the young to the old, and I don't see their popularity languishing anytime soon.

I'm with Kevinj, broad appeal classic dark ride. Is it going to happen? Doubt it. I'll forever be annoyed with Cedar Fair over this, though, as I have been since they've ripped out all the old stuff. At least Boneville is still there.

Kevinj said:

...from what I observe one spends so much time trying to rack up as many points as possible that there is zero interaction among the people in the car with you, one might as well be lost on Facebook or texting someone else while you ride together.

You know, I have been trying to figure out what it was about interactive dark rides that left me wanting. I figured maybe my my memories were through rose colored glasses, and that my older self was just more difficult to impress. But I think you nailed exactly why interactive rides don't leave the same impression as a scenery-based dark ride does.

That said, perhaps the younger generation will never know the difference, since they have no point of reference. And I don't blame parks (especially seasonal ones) for going with the interactive rides, which have a much more manageable ROI.

But it sure would be nice to have a good ol' traditional dark ride.

I look at the interactive dark rides the same way I view a movie. You don't go to a movie to have an interactive experience with the people you go with (mostly). Conversely, for a "normal" dark ride like say POTC, you can talk with the folks around you, pointing out things to each other, discussing them, etc. I and my kids enjoy the latter more.

I've read that children today have a hard time watching a show like Mr. Rogers, because it is slow-paced compared to most of children's tv shows have such rapid screen changes today.

I have to limit my children's exposure to video games and kick them outside to play or make them look out the window on a drive vs watching or playing a screen. I see what the "technology" does to them if they play for too long, they become bored very easily, irritable, and restless.

My husband and I have discussed how we see people in their phones at restaurants instead of conversing. And yet, lately, he is playing trivia on his phone in spare moments and even at a restaurant. "It's just trivia." I'm like, "We've talked about this."

It's more than the fact that I don't prefer interactive video game dark rides. It's also the fact this is enabling this type of society, more distant from each other, ADD, honestly, I don't know if this changes the chemistry in the brain to adapt to this. The American Academy of Pediatrics suggests not to let children under three watch TV.

It's pretty sad that someone thinks children of today cannot enjoy a classic dark ride. It's not the children that have changed, it is what is being fed to them. And frankly, I don't think a video game ride with rapid screen changes is healthy for them or for anybody. It's not an everyday thing at a park, of course, but it's the mentality behind it, this is the only thing that will hold someone's attention and the promotion of something that I don't see is a good thing for us as a society. I think it causes a type of stress, which is why I don't enjoy playing video games myself. I hate the pressure.

It makes me wonder if people could describe how they feel when they get off Toy Story Mania vs. Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, or even Splash Mountain. How do they feel after?

Laser tag is different, there is strategy, there is movement, it involves some thinking. It's paintball without the mess or a more advanced cops and robbers.

We have enough video games at home and on our phones, let us escape from that.

On your comment about people on the phone in restaurants, I saw a photograph of two kids and two parents in a booth at a restaurant. All four had their heads in a mobile device which took their undivided attention. The caption - "Quality Family Time".

I do agree that non-interactive dark rides can be a lot of fun. When I was a kid we went to Indiana Beach every year and I can remember really enjoying the Mystery Mansion dark ride. My favorite part was when you were riding in total darkness toward the end and then suddenly the headlights from a semi would turn on you'd heard the loud blast from a horn. I always knew it was coming but somehow it managed to make me jump every single time. :) Outside of that element though the ride was very predictable and it never changed from year to year. The mansion has since been re-themed and is now a shooting ride called the Den of Lost Thieves.

Speaking of Indiana Beach, they also have a game called Gallery of Ghouls where you stand at a counter and try to shoot at targets in order to cause a reaction out of the various monsters. Cedar Point and Kings Island have water shooting games and KI also has Boo Blasters. If laser tag is a more advanced version of cops of robbers then couldn't these interactive dark rides be viewed as a more advanced version of classic shooting games / rides?

As a parent I limit the amount of time that my kids spend on the computer and their mobile devices. Not because I think that electronics are inherently evil, but because I think that focusing on any one activity for extended periods of time (even reading books) isn't healthy for a person's well-being. Here we're talking about a 2 to 3 minute ride so I'm not particularly worried about any negative impacts on my children's social development. With these rides friends and family are participating in an activity together. It is a shared experience much like any other attraction at the park.

I acknowledged it wasn't an everyday thing to do it at a park but the point being a video game isn't a different experience and it's just more of the same. It is different from laser tag or any game of war between two groups of people vs. a screen point and shoot whether you're sitting on a couch or in a moving vehicle.

It will appeal to gamers, those who aren't will try it, perhaps ride it occasionally because it's there, but be disappointed it isn't something better to see and probably bored, just like we thought the ride at KI with the board cut-outs was not interesting to look at, let alone shoot at.

We liked the shooting gallery they just got rid of because we were shooting at three dimensional objects, something real.

Now if they were to forget the screens and actually make three dimensional figures and objects with shooting targets that would give appeal to both the gamers and the scenic riders. But that's not going to happen. Screens it is.

I have to disagree with you on your experiences with video games on ever level you mentioned and more. It takes plenty of thinking, hand eye coordination, strategy, reaction time, among other things. You don't move when you play chess either, but minus the hand eye coordination it's not much different then playing a video game.

I have to agree with you 100% with people being buried in their phones while there out at a restaurant, or just out and about with other people. That annoys the heck out of me, and I've been playing video games since the mid 90's. There is a huge difference between playing angry birds, texting, and being on Facebook on your phone vs sitting down and playing a real game like battlefield. Saying this type of ride is the same experience is like saying watching a movie on a 20" tv is the same as watching it in the theaters.

Even though I'm a fan of shooter dark rides, I have to say I like pirates of the Caribbean. Its an excellent ride for what it is.

I don't know how to embed a video here, and not sure if links are allowed but MIB at universal your never shooting at a screen it's either a real cutout or a full size 3d plastic figure. Buzz Lightyear is the same way. It is possible.

After riding Curse of DarKastle at BGW my vote goes to something like that being built at Point and I think its very doable.

Personally not a fan of shooters, mostly because the guns never seem to work right. Or I'm just horrible at them...

So... I was preparing an argument that went something along the lines of this...

"Top Thrill Dragster costed $25 Million Dollars. Why shouldn't a dark ride be given the same budget? It's a ride that literally every person walking through the gates could ride and enjoy... So why not make a coaster-class investment?"

Then I read that the estimates on the Spiderman ride I mentioned earlier were 100 Million - 150 Million... This was from a thread I found on Theme Park Insider via Google. [Link]

Is there anyone here who can verify that pricing is "in the ballpark"? I know we can't know for sure since the numbes were never officially released.

So here's a question that I'm going to pose and I want to hear everyone's thoughts before I weigh in.

Is a world-class dark ride worth 4-6 Dragsters to the park?

From a business, marketing, and overall park perspective... Would you rather see one world class dark ride? Or 4-6 world class roller coasters?

You asked two questions:

No, and 4-6 world class roller coasters.

I'd rather take 4-6 good coasters spread out over lots of years. A 150 million dollar ride isn't a good investment for a seasonal park with a mostly regional audience. But I'd take a 15-20 million dollar dark ride.

You could revise your argument and say that since about 4 times as many guests would actually ride the world-class dark ride, then spending 4 times as much is worth it, right?

From my understanding, the Curse of DarKastle had a pricetag about somewhere between 20 and 40 million (I've actually had a hard time finding an exact figure). That's a pretty intense, immersive experience, and I could see CP pulling that off very well.

Cedar Point doesn't need 4 - 6 more coasters, period. Cedar Point does need, however, a good dark ride. You know...like one?

Spending 100 million is out of the question, but quality can be done at a much lower price.

That's a very interesting way to put it. Wikipedia says wonder mountains guardian cost 10M. The new justice league ride cost was released as about that of a rollercoaster via a random site. MIB was 70M via Wikipedia. toy story was 80M quick Google search. Transformers the ride which is the same thing as spider man only themed differently was "reported to have cost 100M" via Wikipedia. To answer question 1 maybe 100M? your talking 1999 money vs. 2011 money.

Question 2 It's well worth 1 or 2. I don't think it would be worth 4 to 6.

Scottyf said:

You asked two questions:

No, and 4-6 world class roller coasters.

Sorry. You're correct. I did ask two questions. I didn't proof carefully enough before posting. :)

For reference... It looks like $100mil in 1999 money is $140,403,357.92 in 2014 money. [Link]

Using the same site, Dragster would cost $32,020,574.23

So, adjusted for inflation... The Spiderman ride is 4.4 Dragsters... Assuming the 100 mil estimate is accurate.

So the Apple to Apples comparison (as close as I can get) is one world class dark ride vs four world class roller coasters...

Roller Coasters are restrictive by their nature.

...Younger kids can't ride them.

...Folks that are too small / too big can't ride them.

...Folks that have the disabilities that come naturally with age can't ride them.

...And many other folks (like my dad) are either afraid of them or just don't like them.

But a dark ride has near universal appeal. So... Is a ride that makes the park more enjoyable for a wider chunk of the public worth spending more on?

Here's another question... What's better for the park? A world class dark ride or the Breakers Hotel renovation?

(Edited because I went to public school and suck at math)

The Breakers renovation was long overdue. That was the best investment the park made in years. I'd rather forgo the dark ride for a nice on-site hotel. It's stupid to pay 5 star hotel prices for a 3 star quality hotel. But since they sold a waterpark to pay for the renovations, that didn't take away from the budget of any future attractions.

Breakers, as long as there's coffee makers in the rooms.

Actually, I would hope there'd be some happy medium between Spiderman and cut-outs.

Maybe they can get the gentleman in the woodwork shop to increase the Schwabinchen figures production for shooting at spinning Bavarian Frauleins.