Raw Efficiency

In regard to capacity, and this coming from a former ride op at Raptor, there are a lot of variable to take into consideration with efficiency. In my experience the safety systems were the least of our issue in regards to being efficient. Yes, there was the occasional snag due to a large guests, but over all if all guest just sat down and allowed the operator to do all the work... those trains would be flying. The only real safety mechanism that slowed down ride capacity and efficiency was the introduction of gates.

The biggest capacity killer was always the guests and their stuff. I still, to this day, do not understand why an entire family needs every member to have their own backpack to carry around for the entire day.

Our only combat to the loose article policy was to be very interactive on platform with the guest and give a since of urgency, which is where live spieling comes in. I have noticed in my past visits over the past few years that live spieling has been hit or miss, and personally think this is the biggest opportunity for cedar point in regards to efficiency and guest service. We found in our operation at Raptor being a tape recording did nothing, so we made our spiels interesting and fun. As a team lead, we made sure you had to earn a spot to spiel, because we needed energy on the P.A. The more we engaged the guests the more they listened and the quicker they moved through the ride. It really works, and it was proven as we had the highest ridership numbers on the ride in 5+ years.

^Raptor opened without airgates? Hmm...

As much as airgates seem like a reasonable safety precaution, has there ever been an incident involving a lack of them?

What about airgates that open quicker? Before you say this is a hazard from leaning on them, Shoot the Rapids had "manual open" gates that, if you leaned on them, would probably send you tumbling down. Dorney also uses these on several rides IIRC. While these would probably slow things down even more (guests expecting the gate to open for them), they're just as "hazardous" as faster automatic airgates. Then again, there's still always going to be a delay if the gates don't open after the train parks, leading to the train being vacant for the short time while the guests walk from the gates to the train - time that could have been spent with the next guests getting closer to the train while the previous guests get off. (Dumb observation and very nitpicky, I know. But for some rides, I'm sure it happens.)

There has been an incident involving them, where a guy got his leg stuck in it.

GigaG said:

^Raptor opened without airgates? Hmm...

Most coasters at the park opened without them. I want to say Mantis was the first to open with them but I can't say for sure. I can remember when it was just a yellow line and you stayed behind it because that was the rule.

I remember the ride op on the PA for Gemini saying "The yellow line is my friend, please don't stand on my friend"... It caught my attention but some people just tune out the PA. For example, how many times do they ask the same guy not to sit/stand on the hand rails?

^ Yeah, I don't think a yellow painted line would be quite sufficient enough these days to deter people from wandering where they shouldn't. Two examples of potential danger areas would be the last car areas of Iron Dragon and Gatekeeper. Both have quite the drop off area and I am sure other rides do also. We have all seen inattentive parents allowing their kids to climb the rails as if they were jungle jim's, without gates these types could easily wander into danger.

"The yellow line is my friend...." quote has me imaging the scene from Seinfeld Soup Nazi.

"No ride for you!"

Shane Denmark said:

. For example, how many times do they ask the same guy not to sit/stand on the hand rails?

I can't count that high.

jimmyburke said:
"The yellow line is my friend...." quote has me imaging the scene from Seinfeld Soup Nazi.

"No ride for you!"

Maybe they should use that line a bit more often and follow it up with "Come back in ONE YEAR!"

i don't think gates that open on time and quickly are that much a hindrance to capacity, but at Raptor, they put them so far back that they shrunk the available space on the load side of the platform too much. Combine that with people wanting to wait for the front seat and being indecisive about which row they're going to pick when they get to the turnstile and it becomes hard to keep the seats full if they are hitting interval or something close to it. There's also not enough room on the unload side with everyone trying to get their stuff, the next train trying to deposit their stuff, etc. it's a case where it would probably be helpful to let the ops actually handle the stuff for the guests, but I don't think they'll ever allow that.

I think the biggest thing that has hurt capacity in recent years are new rules and restrictions placed on procedures at each ride. It seems like common sense things like meeting in the middle of the train or going up and down the train asking each row if they have two (four) people) and otherwise pairing them up don't happen anymore. Also, they seem to mandate that you check from front to back and then walk all the way back up front, and then sometimes back again and maybe squeeze beside/behind a pole or gate (see Magnum) before putting up a clear. All of these things add up to a lot of extra steps and time throughout the course of a day.

Easy solution to Raptor's gates restricting space on the load side of the station is only allow enough people in the station to fill one or two trains at a time. I love that at Millennium Force. Wish more coasters and parks did that. (I'm looking at you, Ride of Steel at Darien Lake)...

MDOmnis said:

I think the biggest thing that has hurt capacity in recent years are new rules and restrictions placed on procedures at each ride.

This! It drives me nuts to see how things are done operationally now whenever I visit the park. The first thing to slow down capacity is how a park decides to check trains/seats/cars. Cedar Point in the past was very efficient at this but over the years they have really gotten away from it from an operations standpoint. I know it comes down to "safety" on the platform but I don't really think there was a need to change operations because of that. The park needs to get back to the way they did things in the past.

I couldn't agree more Shane, but we both know our lovely home park won't do that. I could be wrong but aren't they only running one train now on Superman?

Anyway it's hard to imagine only having a yellow line and not a gate. Stations especially those that seat 4 per row are already a cluster.... once the gates open. Maybe things were different back in the day, but like has been said above most tune out what the ride ops are saying.

Hell I'm guilty of it, but I also know the rules and procedures. They borderline on common sense and just being polite.

What's weird is that American subways do not have any sort of platform gate retrofitted.

You may say that people die on public transit platforms, but those are speeding subway trains on electrified rails that take hundreds of feet to stop, while a roller coaster station contains a slow moving train that can be stopped on a dime. B&Ms require all ride ops to hold down a button during dispatch if I have my facts right, and if one ride op lets go the train won't advance in. I imagine other coasters have similar systems.

So maybe it would be safe, and nobody would die, if there weren't platform gates on a coaster station?

CP historically didn't have platform gates and no one was hit by the train. I believe the gates were put in, Dave let me know if I'm wrong, because of a state requirement.

^More people have been hurt by the platform gates. Remember the guy who got his leg smashed in Raptor's?

That's like equating more people have been hurt by seatbelts since they were mandatory. There's no way to know how many people were prevented from walking, tripping or getting shoved into the path of a train with the gates there.

Now that Pete mentions it that does sound familiar to me. Maybe my remembering of Mantis being the start of it was a bit off?

I think you are both right. Mantis was the first newly built ride to have them (I believe) and then subsequently between then and about 2003-ish most rides that didn't have the gates had them added. Magnum got them for the 2002 season I believe.

I have no problem with air gates. Whether or not they are required by the state, I think that in today's times they are needed. People are becoming less and less observant of their surroundings.

My problem is that on some rides, the train comes in, the people are released, and then you still wait a minute or two for the gates to open. That's inefficient.

I want Blue Streak the way it used to be. Talk about efficient.