The possibility of changing some existing rides

TC - That I'm not sure on. It would depend on how much the theming actually weighed. Since they run the trains with no one in the back on cold mornings, I could see that being an issue.

^Good point.

Were the old wheels and spoiler made out of steel? Maybe they could make them out of fiberglass. Its not really heavy and it is strong, plus its kinda cheap, although maybe it won't be able to subject to the forces of the launch.

Also, remember that without the spoilers and wheels there is an extra row of seating, making the line move quicker, and also the decrease of rollbacks and whatnot.

^^ I love rollbacks! ha. hey I do understand the situation with the added weight though. Not to mention the silly rumor about the tires flying off and bopping folks in the midway........:)

Well, the tire did fly off, but it went the other way, landing somewhere under Iron Dragon.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Well I have never heard of a tire fling off of the dragster But I'm not gonna argue that one,But they could have made them out of fiberglass and have them free roll so there is limited drag.
And as for the question about maverick----I was in the second set of trains, it did not matter what set of trains you were on you still went only half speed and then you launched, no stopping like you were suppose to do and as i look at conceptual drawings and look at how the themeing is done on Maverick it seemed like that CP only dose things Half-A## and it is true to my eyes It just seems that way compared to other places if you know what i mean!

I am guessing it doesn't stop anymore because it keeps costs low. Instead of stopping and launching it from 0 to 70 mph, it is going like 35 and launching at 70. This would mean that the breaks would not be using as much energy and the same with the launch. I am completely guessing though.

I would have to imagine it would be cost, or it could be the fact that it was the problem all along for all of the down time that it was experiencing in the past.
I don't think the breaks use energy though cause there fail safe rare earth magnets but the launch on the other hand is something a little different, But if you goto RCDB.com you will see as concept picture or even on CP.com and you will see that they really cut corners on a lot of the themeing,
I mean the ride is 70% and themeing is 30% of the experience.

RailRunner said:Well I have never heard of a tire fling off of the dragster But I'm not gonna argue that one,But they could have made them out of fiberglass and have them free roll so there is limited drag.And as for the question about maverick----I was in the second set of trains, it did not matter what set of trains you were on you still went only half speed and then you launched, no stopping like you were suppose to do and as i look at conceptual drawings and look at how the themeing is done on Maverick it seemed like that CP only dose things Half-A## and it is true to my eyes It just seems that way compared to other places if you know what i mean!

Even with free spining wheels you would think drag would be pretty solid. However I think the weight was the biggest issue. Not 100% sure how well the ride would function with a different set up.On the themeing issue I think Cedar Fair in general has done a lot better job than they used to do in the past. I mean consider what the themeing was for Millie, and then look at TTD and Maverick. Much much better. Could they have done better? Sure! But when I think of Cedar Point I think of kick butt rollercoasters, not crazy good themeing.Ryan

True they have some cool rides but also if you look at a past post when someone said something about the ID there were nothing but boos at the ens of it when it was first opened, but i look at it it was really cool cause of all of the trees it kind of made you think you were on the back of some IRON DRAGON plus it was an innovator for the suspension coasters (let's not for get about the bat and big bad wolf and a few others) but now that all of the trees and swamp are vague don't you think a scenery up grade could be in the mix somewhere? and or switching to seats and getting rid of the tubs or switching it up every other year, and like i said before they could put trains on Mantis that are the same as Wildfire It has damn near the same layout but it has a cobra roll, but they should change that to a sit down then there really wont be any complaints about the ride that we hear all the time.
And don't say they can't cause they can and why didn't they get the Dominator when GeagaLake closed? I will never get that or the ideas that CP has.
Oh well!!!

The complaints about Mantis come from the fact that people do not listen to the ride hosts when they get on the ride. All you have to do is listen to them and you'll have a fun ride without being hurt.

As far as ID is concerned I tend to think of it as a family ride. Not everything needs to be crazy thrilling. Sure it could use maybe a bit of theming through the woods. But I don't think it would make the ride that much more enjoyable.

I'm not even going to touch the Dominator debate. Please keep in mind this is all in good fun, and I am not trying to attack you.

RE: Dragster
Look real Top Fuel Dragster use axles.. they do not break. Im sure the torque load on them is way more than from the ride.. The vibration from a real Dragster actually registers on the Richter scale. the TTD does not!! The original axles were not the same as what the Pros use. I am sure its more about the drag added by the resistance created. Lets put the themeing idea to rest.. the could use more thrust to over come the drag. they COULD make axles to handle the load.. the DON'T want to. probably cost and i would imagine cranking more power out of the pumps would add to some reliability issues as well as increasing maintenance costs. $$$ Is more than likely the real reason

Bill Horvath said:
RE: Dragster
Look real Top Fuel Dragster use axles.. they do not break. Im sure the torque load on them is way more than from the ride.. The vibration from a real Dragster actually registers on the Richter scale. the TTD does not!! The original axles were not the same as what the Pros use. I am sure its more about the drag added by the resistance created. Lets put the themeing idea to rest.. the could use more thrust to over come the drag. they COULD make axles to handle the load.. the DON'T want to. probably cost and i would imagine cranking more power out of the pumps would add to some reliability issues as well as increasing maintenance costs. $$$ Is more than likely the real reason

there is actually a sign in the dragster line that says that a top fuel dragster uses a few thousand horsepower while TTD uses around 10,000 horse power if I remember correctly. So to say it uses less power is not true. There are many things I'm sure that accounted for them removing the themeing. I think you have it mostly right in the second half of your post. The added stress was probably a big reason.

tcgolfer said:

Bill Horvath said:
RE: Dragster
Look real Top Fuel Dragster use axles.. they do not break. Im sure the torque load on them is way more than from the ride.. The vibration from a real Dragster actually registers on the Richter scale. the TTD does not!! The original axles were not the same as what the Pros use. I am sure its more about the drag added by the resistance created. Lets put the themeing idea to rest.. the could use more thrust to over come the drag. they COULD make axles to handle the load.. the DON'T want to. probably cost and i would imagine cranking more power out of the pumps would add to some reliability issues as well as increasing maintenance costs. $$$ Is more than likely the real reason

there is actually a sign in the dragster line that says that a top fuel dragster uses a few thousand horsepower while TTD uses around 10,000 horse power if I remember correctly. So to say it uses less power is not true. There are many things I'm sure that accounted for them removing the themeing. I think you have it mostly right in the second half of your post. The added stress was probably a big reason.

but the stress of the cable launch does not affect the axles for the drag tires at all whereas the stress of a real dragster so totally on the drivetrain so your argument is null

I disagree. First off you have wind resistence on the tires. Which at 120 mph is a fairly large force. Second there is the vibration of the coaster train itself when it launches. There is a lot of stress throughout the whole ride acting on these things.

It is in all good fun and discussion so i don't feel you are attacking me, and it was probably a drag and power issue due to really weird wind currents of that point-probably too many roll backs for there liking.
But i have seen a sing that says"dragsters stop with a parachute,this dragster uses magnetic brakes to safely slow and stop the train" and there is a WHOLE lot of stress going on on that ride-that cable they use to launch that damn thing stretches and slings like a rubber band as well as the drum rotates and pulls that thing along.
That's another reason why they only go really small loads on the dragster in the mourning so it is no to put too much stress on that cable right away and that is like i said it is probably another reason they took off that extra stuff, just wait shoot the rapids will have probably only have of the scenery ever built and then give it till 2011 and only of the water things will be operational.
They just seem to be doing things half way!!!!!!!!At CP any more and it is really getting sad sorry to say.
I mean look tracks on rides need painting and lights and effects need replacing, but it seems that they just don't want to do it and like i said half of that stuff is part of the thrill.Look at (dilapidated) Disaster Transport!!!! Have i said too much or do i need to say more.

How would allowing the "tire" to rotate help reduce wind resistance?

1 - if the top of the tire is rolling backwards with the wind, that means the bottom is moving into the wind with equal force. You have no net gain in aerodynamics.

2 - a giant randomly rotating mass (2 if the wheels are independent) at the back of the train would wreak havok with designing compensation into the system. Not to mention putting unknown forces onto the back few cars of the train.

On Maverick...

It is not necessary for the train to stop before launching in the tunnel. Whether the train stops before launching is all a matter of whether the next block is clear. Since Intamin has never been able to accurately time out their block systems for efficient operation, but Cedar Point is pretty good about tweaking operations to compensate for that. Now that Maverick has been running a few years, they have worked out how to get the trains out on a schedule that minimizes waiting around and maximizes ride throughput.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Re: Maverick

I went to the point 3 times this past year, and I enjoyed varying experiences with the 70 MPH launch. I rode the ride 7 times this year, and 2 times the ride actually stopped in the tunnel for a good amount of time. The other 5 times it just shot straight through. I guess it has to deal with the block break sections, like you guys were saying.

I'll get back to you in about 95 days when I ride it again.

You said "Schlittenfährt", Beavis. Hehehe.

The one thing that really bothered me about this was that you think that they should change the cars on older coasters. It is part of the tradition to keep the cars as old as the coaster. I am personally a fan of older wooden coasters like Blue Streak. You can't go and change history. I understand that some of the rides are bumpy, but thats the purpose of an older roller coaster. I, to be honest, really do not think that is a cheaper way of updating coasters.

Cedar Point wanted to have a stand up coaster, so they created Banshee, aka Mantis. If they really wanted to put a floorless coaster in they would have built one or made Mantis a floorless. Also, there are enough trees for Iron Dragon "scenery" and you can also see the line for dragster as well.

Each park is different, and yes i understand some coasters are the same as others. But Cedar Fair does not want 10 million Cedar Points across the country.