Top Thrill 2 Announced

I'm imagining the outcry if they had made it 457 feet and claimed they had the record even when the train never got close to the top. If you thought people disagreed about pipe scream...

Despite having rode Superman Escape or whatever its called at Six Flags Magic Mountain with the 400' (~350' actual) freefall, im hoping this experience will still be a little more unique and different in its own right, enough to at least feel like a worthy experience that you're grateful for being a new addition at the end of the day.

djDaemon:

f we assume the train's center of mass hits ~350', and that the train is roughly 50' in length, that puts the rear bumper of the train around 375', roughly one train length from the end of the spike. Considering there will probably be some variance in launch speed vs. total mass of the train, that means the height the train reaches up the spike will vary by some percentage, let's say 5%. That brings the center of the train to ~368', and the rear bumper to ~393'. If that variance is 10%, the rear bumper reaches ~410'.

Who knows what the expected launch variance will be but even at 5% it's close enough that they may have just figured the incremental cost to make the whole thing symmetrical was worth it.

Also, can you imagine the outcry had the rear spike been, like, 415' instead of 420'? Enthusiasts would be losing their minds! :-P

I'm not sure the rear of the train can hit 375 with an 101mph lead in.... it's a basic physics problem, which tells you just how incompetent my skills are.... someone out there will do the math.

True about enthusiasts..... sadly. I'm very happy with this ride, and frankly, the spike is a lot taller than I imagined. I thought 300 feet was a hopeful wish.... This all looks great to me. The best part for me, is that it is now a substantial ride, with effectively three drops and more ride time. That to me outweighs the loss of that epic (and epically unreliable) hydraulic launch.

the greedy part of me wanted a little speed bump tho.....

It was always going to be just a modified dragster, but we are getting:

Two 300+ foot drops

Backwards launch over 100mph

Head Chopper near the station

Reliability (in theory) of a ride that barely operated

rollback (not a full but still a rollback)

Longer ride time

Im all in for it. It takes a one trick pony and gives it a few more tricks. If dragster had been reliable and they did this, then I might be more upset. CP needs it operating regularly even if at a lower capacity.

I love everything about TT2, except the name (and theme). And I hope they get a construction cam up soon.

djDaemon:

this apparent block violation on ID

I am happy to see they are returning to 3 train operation on ID

For a less accurate, less mathy answer. Here's how high the train gets on the video.

It will be kind of cool/fun when Power Tower's drop is timed with TT2's descent down the spike. I'm definitely in agreement that this is a great update to the attraction. And I don't really understand people's concerns with capacity... Do you remember what TTD was like?

I was thinking about power tower being timed with the TT2 drop too. We love to see a good synchronization.

Yeah, I don't see how TT2's capacity won't be as high or higher than TTD, even with the muli-launch sequence.

It appears that there's enough room for a loaded train to move out of the station and wait for the launch section to be clear. So there should always be a loaded train waiting to move to the launch track.

djDaemon:

Yeah, I don't see how TT2's capacity won't be as high or higher than TTD, even with the muli-launch sequence.

Only way it will be high or higher is less downtime, we can only hope....

I'm not sure how many of you ever had the experience of standing in a relatively long Dragster line when the ride actually functioned with no delays because Sensor #4578 went bad. When Top Thrill 1 didn't have downtime, the line actually moved really well.

Assuming things can't possibly get worse with the sequel, I think the capacity worries will be for naught.

Of course there is always...

If you just can't wait.

Dropped by because I fond a video about the lightning train I had never come across before. 25% reduction in weight (in case you want to get all mathy), and pretty darn versatile.

djDaemon:

It appears that there's enough room for a loaded train to move out of the station and wait for the launch section to be clear. So there should always be a loaded train waiting to move to the launch track.

My guess is that I completely misunderstood how the switch track works or they are doing something different on this coaster. On the Pantheon videos I have watched it looks like the switch track is moved while the train is moving about on the track. On TT2 it appears that the switch track will be used to put the train on the track but will then be immediately moved back to the load position.

It seems like this is a much safer way to do things as I imagine the train won't be launched until the switch track is in the proper place as compared to moving the track while the train is currently on the course. It also would seem that if indeed there is room to move the loaded train forward but still be on the load side this would greatly speed up the operations.

Did they announce a cost for TT2?

I'm curious as to what the cost difference / savings might be between building this coaster from scratch vs. adding to the old ride and repuposing the tophat and track.

djDaemon:

Yeah, I don't see how TT2's capacity won't be as high or higher than TTD, even with the muli-launch sequence.

It appears that there's enough room for a loaded train to move out of the station and wait for the launch section to be clear. So there should always be a loaded train waiting to move to the launch track.

To be clear, I am not worried about the capacity of TT2. I am certain it will be higher than TTD and Steel Vengeance.

Unfortunately, I just don't think it will hit 1-minute dispatch intervals or regularly have a train sitting at the transfer track to be dispatched at the earlier possible interval if in fact there is not a dual loading station and only three trains, and especially if they don't do a unload stop before the load, as they did in TTD (I obviously don't have any idea what they plan in terms of load/unload).

There are two reasons for this:

First, it's very ambitious (even for a short train already unloaded) to do the following within 1 minute:

1. move up in the drive wheels into the station (u can easily have 10 seconds just between a dispatch and a new train entering the station, even with B&M, who are great at blocking things out in the station and moving trains in quickly)
2. get everyone in the train seated, dealing with the people that either failed to use lockers, and want to take a hat off, etc.
3. have the ride ops check all the restraints quickly
4. have the ride ops get in dispatch position quickly
5. dispatch train

I can't think of a coaster at CP that regularly dispatches in a minute?

Second, with only three trains and a ride cycle time likely exceeding 1 minute (which I'm guessing it will from dispatch, to launches, to brake run, to sliding back into station), if they dispatch all three trains within a 1 minute interval (let's assume it's the first run of the day and all three are stacked at station/unload/stop before unload), you will quickly get to a place where the first dispatched train will not be unloaded and immediately ready to enter the load station right after the third train was dispatched. - there will be some delay that will slow down the dispatch interval. You'd likely need four train operation to maintain 1 minute dispatches to ensure there is ALWAYS a train entering the load station immediately following the dispatch of the loaded train.

I'm not saying it's not possible (it clearly is), but even Universal Orland ride ops, who are super efficient and high in numbers, and have four train operations, have a tough time getting Velocicoaster dispatched in 1 minute -- they don't hit that mark on average.

So, this likely means 1,000 PPH is the ceiling -- still world's better than TTD or even Steel Vengeance, but the lines will be long on this one!

Yeah, I was disappointed to see that they're going with 3 trains instead of 4, for a number of reasons.

First, as you note, it would guarantee a train is waiting to enter the station if for some reason they were able to quickly dispatch those ahead of it. I mean, they definitely have enough track and therefore potential block zones to accommodate at least 4 trains, especially considering they were working with a relatively clean slate in terms of ride control.

And second, even ignoring all that, these are new trains, and a new product, no matter how well engineered and validated might experience some issues once in service. Plus, there's routine maintenance. Having that fourth train available to rotate one out would seem wise. If I'm Zamperla, I'd offer a fourth train basically at cost just as a gesture of goodwill in this scenario.

At any rate, it's a safe bet that they've run the simulation enough to conclude that a fourth train wasn't justifiable, though I do have to wonder how much the existence of Fast Lane Plus might have affected their decision there.

Noticed in this video that Tony said they are targeting 2024 for opening and purposely skipped over the ready for opening day question. Do they normally say it in that way in 'PR speak' for all new attractions or do you think there are already concerns on timing?

Also great video compared to the one someone else posted earlier interacting with Tony.

Kevinj:

I'm not sure how many of you ever had the experience of standing in a relatively long Dragster line when the ride actually functioned with no delays because Sensor #4578 went bad.

I'm sure how many. It's zero, because there's no chance that ever happened, in all of history. /s

Determining the height it would reach has an insane amount of variables.

1. Are the LSMs set to a certain speed specifically that is monitored, tracked, and altered while it runs over them in real time? Or are they set to a predetermined power level? This matters because a heavier more full train launched at the exact same speed as lighter less full train (or train with lighter people) will reach a higher height due to increased momentum. If the LSMs are simply set to a specific power level, then a heavier train would have reduced speed to the lighter train and they could be equal or the lighter train higher.
2. Temperature of the track/wheels
3. Temperature of the LSMs themselves
4. Wind

That's just grazing the surface. I really am interested in thay first point though.

It would be awesome if the LSM were dynamically powered so each train regardless of weight and wind reached the same speed.

LSMs are not a just set predetermined "speed" setting (ala RCT).

The position of the train needs to be constantly monitored in order to synchronize the magnetic fields generated by the stators (hence the "S" in LSM). The generated magnetic current matches the speed of the train and speeds up to accelerate the train forward (or backward). If no current is generated, the stators operate as brakes.

LIMs operate in more of a "speed rate" style control method (consistent magnetic current to a specific speed) but are inefficient and generate an immense amount of heat. Because of the precise control and ramp up in current generation, LSMs are far more efficient, but require more "computing" power to control.