How much do you get paid?

I know that parkopJen can tell you that the reason for recruiting overseas has nothing to do with diversity. magnumjames, you may have worked there but being a seasonal at Cedar Point for a season does not mean you know everything.

I sat in on some of the emergency hiring meetings when our staffing situation was bleak and looking worse. At NO TIME did we say to each other, we need diverse employees. We said we needed butts to fill positions and we didn't really care where they came from.

The BUNAC and other exchange types of programs work because kids want to come over to the U.S. They get their travelling Visa and come over. Some of them are disappointed to find out they ended up flipping burgers and not making much money but most are happy to get a chance to come over.

One of the concerns at the end of each season is whether or not the kids will finish their contracts or just up and leave so they can "see the country" before they have to head back overseas.

Cedar Point has a lot of smart people working on the hiring problem each year. What is ignorant is thinking that they missed a simple step like marketing. They have done it but for whatever reason American kids are not flocking to these types of jobs like they used to.

One more thing, the problem isn't just at Cedar Point. Dorney is going to recruit overseas this year as well.

Its simple econ 101! In the late 70's early 80's we were happy to get anything./anykind of work!

------------------
People starve in the desert because:FOOD DOES NOT GROW IN SAND!

I have been reading these boards for some time, but have never posted. After reading the post in this forum from Ron Skinner, I just had to post. About the comment about the people from Alabama or Louisiana (12-5) I have to say I am quite offended. I grew up in Alabama and currently live in Louisiana. So, you have offended me twice. Trash is everywhere, Mr. Skinner, even where you live (maybe in your own home), so please don't stereotype the southern states like you have. I have family in Michigan and have been there enough to see for myself that "trash" is everywhere: in Michigan, in Sandusky, in the North as well as the South. So, keep your nearsighted, bigoted, rubbish you call a post in your own double wide trailer (removing the wheels does NOT make it a house) and leave the South out of it.

Your just jealous.

J/K, You yeally don't need to get offended about something stupid like that.

------------------
House of Tomorrow: Only technology makes live worth living

whoa there buddy. Never have i claimed to know everything, nor do i care to... i just like riding rides. Theres a difference between being a 'know it all' and questioning the validity of the know it all's comments.

I'm pretty sure, if i wanted to, i could say the same about you in regards to your employees thinking they know everything comment.

Anywho, put your personal attacks aside and get back to the topic.

If there was really such a need for workers, and the administrative costs were really so high for employing foreigners...wouldnt it be so much easier to hire daily thru temp agencies? I know SF Darien Lake does it here.

---

What is ignorant is thinking that they missed a simple step like marketing.

---

far from ignorant. rather its reality, and i know that from first hand experience. If CP *really* needed workers, they would have found a way to let people like myself know. Good marketing isnt something that you can find if you do a little searching, good marketing finds you.

------------------
:james
magnum crew 2002

Well james, on this topic I AM a know-it-all. Easier to hire through temp agencies? Are you on crack?

Last year Cedar Point hired well over 1,000 people through the BUNAC program. Do you think there are 1,000 people in the Sandusky area that are willing to work at Cedar Point who aren't already working there?

Joe Smith comes in today through a temp program and he needs to be trained to do whatever job he is assigned. Can you picture that? Who wants a temp making their hamburger, running a ride, or using a cash register?

james, I am sure you know quite a few things but on this topic you are far removed from reality.

cleveland and toledo, both within driving distance. Not necessarily saying they should operate any ride... but wasnt really a problem with any of the temps, err ride pride/food prides, that ran rides, made hamburgers, and used cash registers in september and october.

Listen... my argument all along has been the same thing - CP doesnt *need* the foreigners. If none showed up next year, the park would still be up and running. Guarenteed!

And to think otherwise, would make you the one far removed from reality.

Basically the debate has come down to you saying there's an employee shortage that forces CP to look overseas. And because of the money involved it'd be ludicrous to think they look overseas because they want the park to be diverse.

My point of view is there are 300 million people in this country and plenty of resources available. CP decided to recruit overseas and incur the related costs, rather then spending less money and beefing up marketing efforts here at home, because they'd like to see some diversity in the park.

Great example, thanks by the way, Dorney Park. Located about an hour from Philadelphia or Trenton, NJ. Within driving distance of about 4 million people. But they recruit overseas. How else can u explain it other than them doing it to bring diversity into the park.

Dont give the "kids just arent working or accepting jobs like they have in the past." Thats most likely based on surveys of fast food and retail jobs. honestly, who really wants to work in those places. Tho you might be doing similar work at the park, youre in the park! Huge selling point.

Guess if you still believe i'm far removed from reality i'll take it as a compliment. People thought Galileo was unrealistic also. But in hindsight, who really were the fools?
------------------
:james
magnum crew 2002

Well, let's see. Cleveland and Toledo are roughly 60 miles or 1-1/2 hours (depending on traffic) from the Point. Who is going to drive that far 6 days a week to work a job that makes $6 an hour?

In the 70's and early 80's Cedar Point would run one or two ads in a college paper the week before they went to recruit there. So many kids would show up that there were times that recruiters took polaroids of groups of applicants, wrote down their names, and offered them jobs when they got back to the park based solely on their picture.

In the 90's, the numbers of kids showing up on campuses at these recruiting trips was shrinking at an alarming rate. They ran radio ads on campus stations, no good. The more ads they ran, the less people showed up. I can personally attest to numerous kids stopping by the interview session to see how much the park paid only to laugh and walk away.

In the late 90's the park started a program where campus ambassadors would talk up the jobs and even do some interviews and get paid for each person that was hired. Staffing was still falling short year after year.

The Bunac program started with less than 100 kids. It grew out of necessity. Then the HR people came up with the idea of going over to Europe to do some face to face interviews, the reason for which I won't get into.

James, I am telling you and anyone else who even cares at this point that Diversity is not the reason they do this. Does a Midwest amusement park really need diversity? There aren't a great number of european guests visiting the park that they need translators.

Would the park close if they didn't hire these foreign kids? Probably not. But I am certain you would see closed food stands, less merchandise locations, less people working a ride (which would amount to lower through-put and lower capacity), hotel check in times moved to 5:00 or 6:00 b/c rooms can't get clean in time and a host of other significant impacts.

In short, things would start looking like SFWoA. None of us want that.

Believe what you want james but I have intimate knowledge of this subject.
*** This post was edited by Chief Wahoo 12/10/2002 2:42:27 PM ***

Come on ride the clue train... choo choo ride it...

Whoo! Whoo!

------------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED!

While I am not joining in this debate, I think it is interesting to note that in an article from the Sandusky Register, which is online but only to paying customers now, was printed a couple weeks before the 2002 season started. It stated that Cedar Point recieved 2,000 more applications than the previous year, totalling to over 14,000 applications. If you have a subscription, check it out at http://www.sanduskyregister.com/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=3552?frontpage

------------------
Brent Haley
Gemini Crew '02

I don't understand how CP could receive 14,000 applications and still be understaffed most of the season in a lot of departments? I know that a lot of people quit, but with all of those applicants, wouldn't that mean that CP has quite a reserve to pick from to replace the employees that quit? What am I missing here?

-----

Park Services '01-'02

People get other jobs, or go back to school. Not every applicant accepts the job offer.

------------------
Mantis 2002
Broken Down Blue Ride 2001

...and there are thousands of applications that wouldn't be considered for any position in the park for even a moment no matter how understaffed they might be. Some people just don't meet basic job requirements. Oh, the stories I could tell.

And even the ones that do get hired don't always get to stay. If you've ever worked during the first month of the season that the park is open, you realize that CP Housing kind of becomes a revolving door -- and it's not just people who leave because they don't like it. People move in and treat work like they do their classes at school -- don't take them seriously, don't show up or come to work drunk or worse. They're out on the curb before they've worked three weeks, and thrown their whole summer away. It's pretty amazing to see this happen, but believe me, it does. Then the Point has to go and find replacements. I've had whole apartments of roommates I've lived with who were fired and then replaced by new people... It's sad to think that there are people who are even worse out there, who aren't hired in the first place.

------------------
~Lee~

Group Sales ATL '01
Group Sales TL '02
'03 -- TBA
----------------------
"The greatest leaders don't take credit for their actions; they don't have to."

Exactly Lee.. I always knew the rotation rate was high at times from the outside, but once I was in Commons. It was insane..

I moved to Bayside and by the end of the season.. Every person in my old Bayside apt. had been fired or quit except one.. And there were several space fillers along the way.

Yes you're there to have fun kids.. but it's also a job. Show some adult responsibility.

------------------
June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
Technical Services 2002
Fright Zone Screamster 2002

Lee and Rob, I know what you mean, trust me - every person that I was friends with my first year (save for two people) quit or got fired. It was so weird going back for my second year and not knowing anybody, it was like the first year all over again...

I've also seen a lot of people that don't take their job seriously at all, and it really ticks me off. I guess some people really do think that working at an amusement park is the same as visiting, or that it should be. It is so frustrating...and also baffling to me, because for some reason I do not understand, it seems like the people who slack off the most always become TL's (at least on my crew - I cannot say anything for other crews, so I hope that no one is offended). My TL would sit in the break area all day long and complain about the hours and how hot it was...not exactly great for morale. It's too bad...but luckily there are also many great employees that are 100% dedicated, and make the park what it is.

Hey Chief - did you used to be responsible for hiring people? I'm sure you met a lot of interesting folks...Can you share any of those stories, or do they need to be kept private?

-----

Park Services '01-'02

OK, maybe diversity isnt the sole reason they look overseas...but it must be a factor. has to be. Otherwise they'd explore other options here at home.

If college recruiting isnt doing as well as they might want it to be... well recruit other places.

Just because you wont drive 60 miles once or twice to work, doesnt mean other people wont. Look into the temp agency Labor Ready and how they resolve the travel issue.

Hate to bring up another SF reference... but Darien Lake, the park here. Located Halfway between Buffalo and Rochester. No employee housing. Probably 1,000's of workers. Each one of those commute from either city, both atleast 45 mins away, every day. I'm pretty sure they even have a bus pick up workers downtown each morning to bring them to work.

Not necessarily giving these examples as something that'd be perfect for CP, rather just relating that there are other options available.

If people are willing to come all the way from Russia, surely people from LA would be willing to come. Tho i highly doubt 90% of the people who would really consider it even know such an opportunity exists.

------------------
:james
magnum crew 2002

Just because most people wont accept the less glorious jobs, doesnt mean there arent people who will. There are an awful lot of people in foods or park services who come year after year never changing depts.

------------------
:james
magnum crew 2002

I am not debating that there aren't good people who will work in "non-rides" jobs. There are plenty of good people. But we are talking about hiring thousands of kids.

If I lived out in California, what incentive would it be for me to take a job in Sandusky Ohio? There are lots of parks in California where I could work. It isn't to see the thrillling metropolis of Sandusky.

However, if I live in Europe and one of my few opportunities to visit the States is by a work exchange program then Sandusky might look a little more attractive.

I will give you another example. Look at SFWoA. Back in the 80's and early 90's the park found hiring to be relatively simple. Most of the kids that worked there were from the Aurora, Bainbridge, Streetsboro, Kent, Solon, etc areas. All you read about now on the forums is the crappy service you get at SFWoA. Why do you think that is?

Here is a cute story. At a college where we were interviewing, an obviously homeless guy walks in and asks for an application. As he is mulling it over he walks over to the fireplace, tilts his head in, and lights the cigarette in his mouth from the flame. He asks for several more applications. We figure he will be using them to start his evening fire.

My biggest worry is that his clothes will go up in flame because he smells like he took a swim in a vodka pool. That is just one of the many applications that won't get too far.

James, for God's sake, you're getting the real poop right from someone who was there, why can't you just accpet that you're wrong? What are the "other options here at home?" There are none, you have no answer. If you really had the answer you'd be VP of HR by tomorrow.

------------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED!