The fast pass system
Yes, but for Cedar Point it is not practical. The electric board idea is much easier for booth guests and the park.
The thing I think people are worried about is that these people who have the fast pass must first pay for it and then they get to "cut" in front of the people waiting in the "physical" line.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
The thing I think people are worried about is that these people who have the fast pass must first pay for it and then they get to "cut" in front of the people waiting in the "physical" line.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
Here's another thought...
How quickly can the passes be issued?
I mean, the pass could just as easily be nothing more than a serial-numbered ticket, where they could merely estimate at what time they will be ready to take a particular pass number. But how long does it take to get the pass? Consider, 36 people go up the lift every 97 seconds. Another way to look at it is that on the average, one person gets onto the ride every 2.7 seconds. If it takes longer than 2.7 seconds to issue the pass, then you might as well wait in line, assuming that pass issuance starts when the ride starts up. Lines form because people arrive at the ride faster than the ride can take them away. Usually, this happens when the ride is not operating, or when the ride is delayed. 1,200 people show up to wait in line before the ride starts running, and if people arrive at the ride at a rate of one person every 2.7 seconds, the line will move continuously...and will always have 1200 people waiting. The challenge is to match up the patron arrival rate with the ride capacity. Or vice versa.
This is why there is almost never a wait for Gemini...when it is running at full capacity, the trains are taking people out as fast as they can come up the entrance stairs. Watching the exit tends to demonstrate this, as the line of people exiting the ride when it is running at full capacity is a continuous stream of people...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 6/20/2000. ***
How quickly can the passes be issued?
I mean, the pass could just as easily be nothing more than a serial-numbered ticket, where they could merely estimate at what time they will be ready to take a particular pass number. But how long does it take to get the pass? Consider, 36 people go up the lift every 97 seconds. Another way to look at it is that on the average, one person gets onto the ride every 2.7 seconds. If it takes longer than 2.7 seconds to issue the pass, then you might as well wait in line, assuming that pass issuance starts when the ride starts up. Lines form because people arrive at the ride faster than the ride can take them away. Usually, this happens when the ride is not operating, or when the ride is delayed. 1,200 people show up to wait in line before the ride starts running, and if people arrive at the ride at a rate of one person every 2.7 seconds, the line will move continuously...and will always have 1200 people waiting. The challenge is to match up the patron arrival rate with the ride capacity. Or vice versa.
This is why there is almost never a wait for Gemini...when it is running at full capacity, the trains are taking people out as fast as they can come up the entrance stairs. Watching the exit tends to demonstrate this, as the line of people exiting the ride when it is running at full capacity is a continuous stream of people...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 6/20/2000. ***
I was actually thinking about the same "time board" idea this past weekend at the park, it would be sort of like at the airports, and they could also tell you if a ride is down or delayed. When the Millennium Force was down Sunday morning I sat there and watched everyone walk to it well it was closed, if there were boards throughout the park it would save time and headaches.
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Whats life if you never get to the point?
MF:12
www.angelfire.com/oh4/hurricane6
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Whats life if you never get to the point?
MF:12
www.angelfire.com/oh4/hurricane6
Just another example on the distribution of serialized tickets. Towards the end of last year park ops was toying around with boarding passes on Magnum. Because the ride ops had to distribute the passes, the line at the queue entrance was bottlenecked, the station was walkon.
I have to wonder if they had this system in mind when they developed the queue. Notice that there are two queue gates at the ride entrance: the left goes to the switchbacks, the right is a straight shot behind the DJ to the ramp. Hmmm. :)
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
I have to wonder if they had this system in mind when they developed the queue. Notice that there are two queue gates at the ride entrance: the left goes to the switchbacks, the right is a straight shot behind the DJ to the ramp. Hmmm. :)
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
i think what people are worried about here is abuse of this system, the "Disney-esque" connotation it has (DOWN WITH EISNER!!) and the perfectly logical fear that it will screw up what have turned out to be rather short and pleasant waiting times. they just now got it down to get us throught in under two hours.no one is complaining about it..if it ain't broke, don't fix it!! i certainly wouldn't want to be there trying to get in 3 or 4 MF laps and have to be dlayed by everyone with a fast pass cutting in front of me. the physical line wil be nothing more than "standby" and may not move at all if fastpass holders are streamng through. how do they fit in non-fastpass holders??? seems kind of unfair to me...
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ride early, ride often!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
That is the most legitimate concern I have heard on this issue... I did notice a slight delay while standing in the regular "suckers" line for Tower of Terror, and it did seem that fast passers were the main cause of the delay. However, the approximate wait time was posted as 70 minutes and it only took 55 minutes, so it worked out alright and we knew what we were getting into upon entering the line. It seemed very fair to me overall.
The regular wait time for MF may be lengthened slightly, but remember that if everyone who had a reservation was in line in front of you, the wait time would probably be the same anyway.
The regular wait time for MF may be lengthened slightly, but remember that if everyone who had a reservation was in line in front of you, the wait time would probably be the same anyway.
I think I like the idea of FastPass. What's wrong with getting an assigned time, and then spending the time you would be in line doing other things? 1.5 - 2hrs. is still a LONG time to wait in line, it gets pretty tedious even with the DJ. Heck, I'd rather hang out at the Red Garter and drink a few beers waiting to ride MF than stand in line. The sign board is an OK idea, but it fails to address the problem of everyone wanting to ride MF, regardless of the length of wait. I don't think it'll spread people around like it may seem that it would. With FastPass (CPExpress might be a good name), people get the statisfaction of knowing they are queued for MF, while still having the freedom to do other things. Seems like a great choice to me.
And where can i get my fast pass? I'm on my way there this saturday for the first time ever and if there's fast pass's i want to know how to get one ASAP. Oh and by the way i'm siding with anyone. I see the points on both sides and really havent a clue which is better. But i do like the idea of not having to standing next to a dorkey geek for two hours who keeps talking to me even though i don't listen.
Servo - that's exactly what I have been thinking. I have a feeling that if they try out the fast pass system this weekend (as I may be going on Sunday), they will come out with many dissatisfied customers. They worked hard enough to get the 3 trains running and that cut the wait time down. I think that there would be tons of confusion and angry people running around the park if they just all of a sudden introduced it this weekend. I myself want to get as many MF laps as I can, and I don't want to be slowed down by these fast pass people. I have a question, also - I may sound stupid but do these fast passes cost extra money?
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 2
Next CP trip/MF thrill 6/30
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 2
Next CP trip/MF thrill 6/30
If they pattern the basics from Disney, no, it costs nothing extra. The only thing Disney requires from you is to swipe your ticket/season pass in the machine to get a ticket. By doing this, the system prevents you from getting more than one pass on all rides during the assigned time period.
Personally, I liked the FastPass system at Disneyland. It brought a 2+hr wait for Splash Mountain down to about 20 minutes. The way I see it, if you want to wait in a 2hr line, go ahead, but don't complain when the FastPass line goes ahead because everyone has the same opportunity to use/not use the system. Basically, a little in-the-park time budgeting never hurts.
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
Personally, I liked the FastPass system at Disneyland. It brought a 2+hr wait for Splash Mountain down to about 20 minutes. The way I see it, if you want to wait in a 2hr line, go ahead, but don't complain when the FastPass line goes ahead because everyone has the same opportunity to use/not use the system. Basically, a little in-the-park time budgeting never hurts.
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
There is nothing wrong with how the park operates right now. If you want to ride the new ride and the wait is 3 hours, then by all meens wait 3 hours. People will wait for it. Think about it, CP would loose out on some cash if they used the fast pass system. In the middle of the lines they have pop/water machines right, people buy that stuff up fast, and at $2 a bottle they will be making some pretty good money there.
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"The shade, is a tool, A device, a saviour"
My own summer (shove it)-Deftones
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"The shade, is a tool, A device, a saviour"
My own summer (shove it)-Deftones
Would a virtual queue increase the overall wait time? If people didn't have to wait in line it would encourage them to join a longer virtual line, then you wouldn't be able to ride it as many times as you would be able to.
If my memory serves me right from 4 years ago, at all of the WDW parks, the major attractions were on a digital board that updated continously. It was right at the front of the park. So you could enter the park, find Space Mountain on the board.
It can say "Closed" or wait time of "45 minutes" Then you could check another attraction and ride that. Problem with that system is their not everywhere, esp since WDW's parks are huge. That system might serve CP better.
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Brian Z.
Hometown parks: Kennywood, Cedar Point!
Feel the Force NOW!!
It can say "Closed" or wait time of "45 minutes" Then you could check another attraction and ride that. Problem with that system is their not everywhere, esp since WDW's parks are huge. That system might serve CP better.
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Brian Z.
Hometown parks: Kennywood, Cedar Point!
Feel the Force NOW!!
Dave..Lets hope CP is reading this thread..GREAT idea!!
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http://www.msu.edu/~armbrus9/cp.html
Jeffrey Spartan
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http://www.msu.edu/~armbrus9/cp.html
Jeffrey Spartan
yes, but how do they let non-fast pass holders onto the ride?? do they alternate or what?? if i am there and have used my pass and i want to wait again, at what point do they say "OK non pass holders can ride now"??
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ride early, ride often!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
There is no way it would increase overall wait time because they only issue so many fast passes per hour, so the wait is certainly no longer than it would be if the passes weren't issued.
Fast passers are given priority onto a ride, so the regular queue has to wait if there are fast passers in the pass line. The idea is that you only give out x number of passes per hour so that you do not increase overall wait time.
The board at the beginning of the queue would give the approximate wait time for the normal line. This would still be accurate given they know how many fast passes they issued for that time frame. The wait time would take into account the passes issued for that time period.
Fast passers are given priority onto a ride, so the regular queue has to wait if there are fast passers in the pass line. The idea is that you only give out x number of passes per hour so that you do not increase overall wait time.
The board at the beginning of the queue would give the approximate wait time for the normal line. This would still be accurate given they know how many fast passes they issued for that time frame. The wait time would take into account the passes issued for that time period.
On my last trip to Disney, we used fast pass for the rock n rollercoaster. Our wait was 15 minutes, the line was about 75-90 minutes. I say it's a good thing. Plus we knew exactly when to head that way and like everyone else is saying, we spent that extra hour and a half doing other things. From what I hear the fast pass helps on two levels:
Those who participate have very little wait and those who don't are seeing shorter "regular" lines. (I'm assuming due to all the people running around with fastpasses rather than standing in line)
As far as the big signboard with wait times for the major attractions. It's good if you're smart. There are two big problems I see with it's effectiveness.
1. Everyone sees the short wait for one ride and rushes there, quickly turning it into a much longer wait. Then you hear people complaining about how the sign was incorrect.
2. Like Camel said, IOA uses this system and lines are still very long for some rides. It just seems like in general people want to get on a certain ride when they feel like it. Simple as that. I too have seen the wait for Hulk be in excess of a hour while Dueling Dragons is a walk-on, Spiderman is 30 minutes, and Dr. Doom is 10 minutes. The general public tends to not pay alot of attention to that sort of thing.
Keep in mind if you visit this site, you're probably a bigger fan of amusement parks and rides than most people in a park on any given day. While you're there to maximize your fun, they're there to do what they can. This is why fastpass works so well in my opinion. Let the casual visitors have an unefficient day. I'm reserving my spot on the big rides and using the time saved to do even more.
Those who participate have very little wait and those who don't are seeing shorter "regular" lines. (I'm assuming due to all the people running around with fastpasses rather than standing in line)
As far as the big signboard with wait times for the major attractions. It's good if you're smart. There are two big problems I see with it's effectiveness.
1. Everyone sees the short wait for one ride and rushes there, quickly turning it into a much longer wait. Then you hear people complaining about how the sign was incorrect.
2. Like Camel said, IOA uses this system and lines are still very long for some rides. It just seems like in general people want to get on a certain ride when they feel like it. Simple as that. I too have seen the wait for Hulk be in excess of a hour while Dueling Dragons is a walk-on, Spiderman is 30 minutes, and Dr. Doom is 10 minutes. The general public tends to not pay alot of attention to that sort of thing.
Keep in mind if you visit this site, you're probably a bigger fan of amusement parks and rides than most people in a park on any given day. While you're there to maximize your fun, they're there to do what they can. This is why fastpass works so well in my opinion. Let the casual visitors have an unefficient day. I'm reserving my spot on the big rides and using the time saved to do even more.
The above post states all the benefits of the system. It's free, you're not forced to use it, and it dosen't make the wait time any longer. Do the math. If I got to MF at noon and the sign said a 2 hour wait, I would get a pass and it said "ride between 2 pm and 4 pm" I knew I could get in a ride on Magnum and Gemini and maybe grab lunch, get to MF around 2 pm and ride within 15 minutes. You do more instead of waiting, thereby maximizing your time in the park. Since only a certain amount of passes are handed out on a first come, first serve basis (they have 50 for the first hour, 50 for the next, ect)when they run out for the day, that's it- no more. I've been in lines where FastPass people have passed me by and you are delayed maybe two minutes as not everyone who has a pass runs in at the same time- people who have that hour to ride wander in throughout the hour, not all at once. Again, you would have the choice of waiting in a long line, or getting a pass and doing other things while you wait. Or blow off the Fastpass and wait- it's your choice. CP is only trying to cut down the wait times for MF and let guests get more out of the day. Want to wait in MF line all day and get 5 rides, or get passes, get maybe 3 rides on MF and do everything else? Seems like a no brainer to me...
The thing is, most of Disney's rides have a low ride capacity. CP's rides all have pretty good ride capacity.
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"The shade, is a tool, A device, a saviour"
My own summer (shove it)-Deftones
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"The shade, is a tool, A device, a saviour"
My own summer (shove it)-Deftones
Are you guessing somewhatchewy or do you have some real information on their capacity? I don't know for sure, but I would say that Test Track has a fairly large capacity with it's constantly moving vehicles x 6 people per car. Tower of Terror seems like a large capacity ride as well. 2 sets of load platforms with each "elevator" carrying around 20 people (not sure the exact number). Disney does a lot of homework before they build rides. They have been in the business for a long time. If you have some examples of poor capacity at Disney I would like to see...
As far as CP losing money from less people using the vending machines in the queue, I would disagree. They gain money from people being able to wander around in the park, possibly eating lunch, or drinking alcohol which is more expensive.
Another possibility is that they wait in line for something else, buying nothing. If this happens, the park's short-term revenue would be decreased, yes. However, patron satisfaction is increased due to the fact that they got to ride 2 rides in the time they waited for 1, which increases the likelihood of them wanting to come back (more and sooner). This also increases the word of mouth advertising as the people will tell their friends how positive their experience was potentially generating new customers for the park. This will increase the long-term revenue for CP which is what all Cedar Fair shareholders would like to see. (Myself included)
As far as CP losing money from less people using the vending machines in the queue, I would disagree. They gain money from people being able to wander around in the park, possibly eating lunch, or drinking alcohol which is more expensive.
Another possibility is that they wait in line for something else, buying nothing. If this happens, the park's short-term revenue would be decreased, yes. However, patron satisfaction is increased due to the fact that they got to ride 2 rides in the time they waited for 1, which increases the likelihood of them wanting to come back (more and sooner). This also increases the word of mouth advertising as the people will tell their friends how positive their experience was potentially generating new customers for the park. This will increase the long-term revenue for CP which is what all Cedar Fair shareholders would like to see. (Myself included)
Closed topic.