Soak City Announcement on

Plenty of logical posts were already made in this thread, and fluffed off by the "experts" who only see things in their fantasy world of making things work within their expected/dream timelines.

DA20Pilot said:

Another somewhat related example is Cedar Fair's purchase of Paramount Parks. It was too much at once and decimated the share price for a good while.

You can't possibly believe the closing of Geauga Lake didn't have a significant impact on the number of Cleveland-native unit-holders. It was the following week that the price plummeted, and had nothing to do with the Paramount purchase.

I don't see anyone stating anything unreasonable in this thread, much less anyone fluffing something off while being in fantasy land.

A few weeks ago I too was skeptical that something would happen with MS while there was already 1 empty and another mostly empty plot of land around the park. But now we know that something is indeed happening to MS and something is afoot that we will find out about on the 18th. Theres nothing to suggest both cannot occur simultaneously.

Was it stated by the park that this is definitely a Soak City announcement. Because this very well could be a misdirection. I could absolutely see this being the case. It's likely a Soak City expansion but anything is possible.

I posted this in the Mean Streak getting axed thread but I figured I'd say it here too because people keep making presumptions about the limits of what Cedar Point can add per season. If Carowinds can complete a massive waterpark overhaul and add an interactive dark ride only a season after adding Fury 325 and redoing their entire main entrance plaza, there's no reason why Cedar Point cannot have a waterpark revamp/expansion and an RMC the year after Valravn. Especially considering that Cedar Point pulls in substantially more money than Carowinds or any other park for the chain and can alleviate that expendature much quicker, and that Soak City, unlike Carolina Harbour, has its own revenue stream, and the Fury 325 investment was probably at least 1.5 fold that of Valravn's. I'm not saying it will be done, or that it won't be done. But it sure as hell can be done. Only time will tell what we're getting for 2017 and what for 2018.

What about a water ride where STR was? Does that still fit the flip- flop clue?

Just a thought to throw out there, but what if next year we get the Soak City expansion as well as a new attraction in the Shoot the Rapids site? Then by 2018, (say they do tear down Mean Streak entirely and clear the area), we get a new coaster or the RMC conversion that's been highly rumored? I don't know, it's just an idea to throw out there with STR's area being vacant and all. :/

Thoughts on something in the STR site and Soak City expansion for next year?

Did Knotts Berry Farm pull a tornado style slide out recently? Maybe that will show up next year in a SC expansion.

I'm no expert by any means, I'm simply going off the evidence that we have.

Markings on Mean Streak, an RMC stake, a complete 180 from Screamscape saying RMC will work indeed with Cedar Point on Mean Streak, the closing of Mean Streak (with an extremely suggestive teaser video).

So we also have the cleared Land from the Go Karts, and a teaser about Soak City. Just from that information, it makes the most sense to expect a Soak City expansion and Mean Streak conversion. Thats simply where evidence is pointing, and I havent seen any additional evidence pointing anywhere else. If any one has additional evidence, I would like to know as nothing is set in stone as of yet.

CPGuru said:

Especially considering that Cedar Point pulls in substantially more money than Carowinds...

But it sure as hell can be done. Only time will tell what we're getting for 2017 and what for 2018.

Carowinds is the next biggest growth avenue for the chain Park Wise, it was seen as underperforming and underdeveloped for its market.

It has much higher growth potential than CP given location, seasonality and overall size. Therefore, it will be getting substantial improvements in order to bring it in line in the chain's portfolio of revenue streams. If those investments at Carowinds are showing progress, expect much more attention to that park in the near future to drive growth.

CP's major growth avenue is the Out Of Park revenues, which CF has been capitalizing on very well.

It can be done, sure. Is it wise? probably not. They are already expanding hotel capacity and other out of park attractions for CP. They are capitalizing on the Upsells and Uphcarges that are driving income growth, and customers are willing to pay for. Management is no longer just about the turnstile counts anymore, Ohio cities closest to CP are declining in population rapidly. Management is more concerned with its average guest spend and out of park income streams for CP.

You're right that Cedar Point's major growth avenue is out of park, but that's my point exactly. Soak City brings in it's own revenue stream, meaning it can have funds from there allocated to its own expenditures. The hotels bring in in their own revenue stream, and their funds can be allocated towards the Breakers Express expansion. But Cedar Fair (even the new management) has said it time and time again, Cedar Point's DNA IS roller coasters, and they will continue to build them if that's what brings people back in. Cedar Point has its own substantial revenue stream (even when setting aside the out of park, Soak City, hotels, etc.) and there's no reason why it cannot allocate funding for its own expenditure.

CP's cap ex habits suggests that next year won't see the RMC conversion, but instead will be the SC expansion, and presumably a complete re-imagining of the resort gate.

Fat Man Tarkey said:

...the closing of Mean Streak (with an extremely suggestive teaser video).

So we also have the cleared Land from the Go Karts, and a teaser about Soak City. Just from that information, it makes the most sense to expect a Soak City expansion and Mean Streak conversion.

They told us about something happening to MS because they obviously cannot hide the fact that they will be closing it and working on it beginning next month. Assuming an RMC version is coming in 2018, I'm sure the park would much prefer to hide the fact that anything is happening to it, if that were possible.

I'm almost positive that Soak City is not considered Out Of Park Revenue for CP.

djDaemon said:

CP's cap ex habits suggests that next year won't see the RMC conversion, but instead will be the SC expansion, and presumably a complete re-imagining of the resort gate.

Fat Man Tarkey said:

...the closing of Mean Streak (with an extremely suggestive teaser video).

So we also have the cleared Land from the Go Karts, and a teaser about Soak City. Just from that information, it makes the most sense to expect a Soak City expansion and Mean Streak conversion.

They told us about something happening to MS because they obviously cannot hide the fact that they will be closing it and working on it beginning next month. Assuming an RMC version is coming in 2018, I'm sure the park would much prefer to hide the fact that anything is happening to it, if that were possible.

Their habits huh? It's now four years in a row that Cedar Point has added a new roller coaster 'experience'. Gatekeeper, Pipe Scream (questionable, but Cedar Point calls it a coaster), Rougarou, Valravn. The only pattern I see is that Cedar Fair acknowledges that Cedar Point's DNA is roller coasters and that's what brings people back to the park. How they spend it once they're at the park is a different story and obviously they've been working really hard on maximizing that over the past few years.

The good news: MS is gonzo! I'm putting money on an RMC conversion and that could very well be ready by spring twenty-seventeen. What are flip flops associated with? The beach! Look for a Soak City expansion including another wave pool! The evidence is in plain sight. Yes it's my ASSumptions, but the clues are not difficult to decipher. i wouldn't at all be surprised to see a ProSlide magnetic water attraction included in the plan.

CPGuru said:
Their habits huh? It's now four years in a row that Cedar Point has added a new roller coaster 'experience'. Gatekeeper, Pipe Scream (questionable, but Cedar Point calls it a coaster), Rougarou, Valravn. The only pattern I see is that Cedar Fair acknowledges that Cedar Point's DNA is roller coasters...

Your theory only makes sense when you completely ignore the whole "ex" part of cap ex.

How much did Pipe Scream and Rougarou cost again?

Edited to add: You are right about one thing - coasters are in their DNA. Which is why you'll see a water coaster at Soak City next year.

CPGuru said:

-Soak City brings in it's own revenue stream, meaning it can have funds from there allocated to its own expenditures.

-The hotels bring in in their own revenue stream, and their funds can be allocated towards the Breakers Express expansion.

-But Cedar Fair (even the new management) has said it time and time again, Cedar Point's DNA IS roller coasters, and they will continue to build them if that's what brings people back in. Cedar Point has its own substantial revenue stream (even when setting aside the out of park, Soak City, hotels, etc.) and there's no reason why it cannot allocate funding for its own expenditure.

Breaking down the way you suggest, which isn't the way CapExs are allocated, overall attendance and in-park revenue for CP hasn't grown enough (only 1%) to justify yet another coaster.

Again, CF is not just about turnstile counts and CP is pretty much at its max attendance and another coaster will not drive that much if any higher. Average length of Stays for resorts guests with $$$ to spend (which soak city helps extend resort stays) and Group sales is where growth is at for this park. Carowinds on the other hand has a much larger audience to draw upon.

I'm hoping a Soak City expansion includes something more interesting than a larger wave pool. Make other places for people to spend their time and the wave pool won't be as crowded. I spend a lot of time in the wave pool at SC but none when I'm at Wildwater Kingdom because I like the cove area with the waterfalls and the whirlpool. If SC had those features somewhere I would probably spend the time I wait for my kids there instead of in the the wave pool.

CP Maverick said:

DA20Pilot said:

Another somewhat related example is Cedar Fair's purchase of Paramount Parks. It was too much at once and decimated the share price for a good while.

You can't possibly believe the closing of Geauga Lake didn't have a significant impact on the number of Cleveland-native unit-holders. It was the following week that the price plummeted, and had nothing to do with the Paramount purchase.

I wasn't making any comment whatsoever about the closing of GL. GL wasn't even in my consciousness when I wrote the post. I was merely trying to briefly illustrate in simple terms, in response to a post, why a company's good financial health does not give them carte blanche to spend without constraint.

But, if you read analyst research, CFs annual reports, and their financial statements it is widely understood that the massive amount of debt CF took on to purchase Paramount Parks had a major effect on CFs stock for years, and also took a lot of Kinzel's luster. Any effect of GLs closing upon the stock was negligible in comparison.

Cedar Fair paid $145 million for Geauga Lake.
They added 1.24 BILLION in debt to the balance sheet to acquire Paramount Parks.

And, many times investors applaud closing of unprofitable or revenue-cannibalizing ventures by bidding up the price of a stock, despite a short-term write-down.

Flip flops also makes me think they are doing something with that dreadfully boring concrete. Let's rip it all up and put some colors in there. Blues, oranges, etc.